that helped obama in 2008 against -- that was different because mccain wasn't president. but it helps when you're a challenger and you stand there next to the president of the united states it can raise your stature and that can help romney. >> can i put you on the spot and ask you who you think is going to fare better? >> oh, boy. you know, i've been wrong on so many predictions. >> that's okay. >> look my basic view of this is that by the time we get into october, a lot of voters have made up their mind. undecided voters, early voting has already started. >> are you -- >> i'm getting to it. downplay the drama of the debates but the truth is, you know, historically the conventions have mattered a lot more than the debates. and by this time in the campaign, it's really hard to change. >> that's true but sometimes they have mattered, right? >> don't mess up. >> look, kerry, even though he lost, he improved his standing quite a bit in 2004 in the period of the debates. so romney can pick up some ground. it's a close race. but i'm sticking with my prediction of the debates a